Rat Trap or I don't like mondays

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

Rat Trap or I don't like mondays

suss · In the Long Grass

There's a bit of similar debate in the Rank the Singles thread as I recall.

Rat Trap for me. More personal, more interesting as a piece of music, and ToTP videos are as memorable as the official Mondays one, although promo video isn't a bad one.

Got more soul as well.

Mondays was/is unique perhaps, whereas Rat Trap is comparable to other tracks by Rats and others, but I still maintain it may not have taken charts by storm in same manner had it not been preceded by the steady growth culminating in Rat Trap.

-- Edited by suss on Tuesday 12th of August 2014 08:39:13 PM

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Rat Trap won the Rat World Cup; Mondays didn't qualify

Mark L · Loudmouth

Rat Trap always gets 10 out of 10 rounded up and round this neck of the woods but then so does Mondays too; we're talking cigarette papers really, probably 9.8 for Rat Trap and 9.6 for Mondays. Rat Trap got me hook and line and sinker into the Rats and then I began that process of reversing through the preceding records which I had, partly through age, not paid as much attention to as Rat Trap. It was during this process that I realised how fantastic Like Clockwork is and they frequently change places into terms of which one I (marginally) like better - which of course is the issue with any debate like this. However, I always think SLAY nudges them out of the way to the top - just. I love the slow build up of this one, the arrangement, lyrics, the sense of a return to form after the (slightly) disappointing Diamond Smiles, the way it settles down towards the end, only to explode again with the line 'You may as well....shout out from the roof, scream it from lungs and spit from your mouth' (literally spat out) and then the band's response (na na na na na na na). Rarely has paranoia been so hook-laden and well crafted emerging in 2 different versions which are both stunning in their own way. I give SLAY 9.9.

Back to the question, Mondays' video was unlike anything I had seen before and was mesmerising to me at that age. I think it is a tough call for me as you have chosen 2 songs which are absolute classics in their own way. To me, every single from Like Clockwork to the Elephant's Graveyard (Guilty) is a 10 out of 10 job, save for Diamond Smiles. I'd give Go Man Go the same score probably, had it been released in the UK in the summer of 1981.

I know what Derek means when he says he's heard Mondays so often, it's lost its sparkle. This can happen to me with Mondays and I have to put it into exile for months at a time. When it's released again though, it's sense of drama and the sheer brilliant piano work storms back into my brain and reminds me of the track's awe and excellence.

On delicate balance though, and to answer Matt's question, I'd go with Rat Trap. The slow chart ascent, the overpowering of American bubblegum nonsense by new wavesters this side of the pond, not to mention the quality of the song itself awaken joyous memories of October to December 1978.

The winter of content.

-- Edited by Mark L on Tuesday 12th of August 2014 11:18:54 PM

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Rat Trap. I love Mondays, but think that Rat Trap was something I could always relate to. Think the sax has the slight edge musically, although Mondays intro is iconic.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

As much as I loved Mondays. I think this was the beginning of the end. After what the NME had written at the time about this song No way was Geldof ever going to pull something like that out of his pocket again. Most people at the time bought the song, not because it was a song Rats. Which I believe was the down fall. When Rat trap hit the charts it was the Rat fans that got that song to No1. 78 was a great year for the rats sell out gigs Album doing well they just couldn't put a thing wrong that year What a band

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

manatthetop wrote:
As much as I loved Mondays. I think this was the beginning of the end.

It was the peak and downhill from there, but given Banana Republic's huge success they were still on the top of their game until Mondo Bongo came out. That was the beginning of the end for most people. They never came back from that. Had Mondo Bongo been a more accessible LP and had another big hit from it (Go Man Go or even Fall Down may have fared better than Guilty) then I suspect The Rats may have extended their chart career a little longer.

That said they still played on for another six years or so after Mondays, and as far as I was concerned, and still am, I couldn't care less if they never had a hit album or single after that as long as they kept releasing good music. I wish they had continued in the same vein as The Stranglers who continued to tour and release albums, but Band Aid/Live Aid put paid to that.

Mark L · Loudmouth

It was the peak from a stats point of view but for me the singles all the way into Mondo Bongo were compelling and totally up to scratch. If I were to redo Rank the Singles I'd rate Million Years higher than hitherto but I'd concede that was the real turning point for a lot. I think a mate I had at school spoke for many when he said he went off them on that 'one where he shouts and went all arty farty'.

Within 6 months of that, the disastrous Charmed Lives had been released and the rot had set in. Even massive amounts of fungicide by way of ITLG and it's attendant mostly brilliant singles could not reverse the rot. Band Aid dampened things further so that by 1986 the rot's destruction was complete.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

ArrGee wrote:
manatthetop wrote:
As much as I loved Mondays. I think this was the beginning of the end.
It was the peak and downhill from there, but given Banana Republic's huge success they were still on the top of their game until Mondo Bongo came out. That was the beginning of the end for most people. They never came back from that. Had Mondo Bongo been a more accessible LP and had another big hit from it (Go Man Go or even Fall Down may have fared better than Guilty) then I suspect The Rats may have extended their chart career a little longer.
That said they still played on for another six years or so after Mondays, and as far as I was concerned, and still am, I couldn't care less if they never had a hit album or single after that as long as they kept releasing good music. I wish they had continued in the same vein as The Stranglers who continued to tour and release albums, but Band Aid/Live Aid put paid to that.

Agree with you 100% here. I even paid for the 7ins and 12ins singles of Charmed lives. As I pointed out B4 He could have written and sang about Sh?t and I still would have got it. Like yourself it was about the songs for me not how well they done in the charts

junkyard_smile · The Elephant's Graveyard

ArrGee wrote:
manatthetop wrote:
As much as I loved Mondays. I think this was the beginning of the end.
It was the peak and downhill from there, but given Banana Republic's huge success they were still on the top of their game until Mondo Bongo came out. That was the beginning of the end for most people. They never came back from that. Had Mondo Bongo been a more accessible LP and had another big hit from it (Go Man Go or even Fall Down may have fared better than Guilty) then I suspect The Rats may have extended their chart career a little longer.

Don't think there was anything wrong with Guilty as a single (for years afterwards they started the set with it), but should of been followed up with another single off the album. Could of been Go Man Go but I'd have gone for Hurt Hurts. As much as I like Fall Down I just can't imagine it as a single...too short, too different a sound, and not a commercial sound and would have probably brought about an even swifter decline than actually happened.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Guilty was a good single choice but warranted a much higher position than 26. Maybe if Go Man Go had been released after Banana Republic, Guilty would have fared better as an early summer release, what with the beach-based nature of the superb video.

Fall Down or Hurt Hurts or Straight Up were the other obvious single candidates for me, but Fall Down might have required a stretched single edit to achieve what was and maybe still is, the optimum single length of 3 to 3.5 minutes.

Mind you, Rat Trap succeeded at over 5 minutes.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Guilty was a obvious choice and it would have fared better in 1978 or 1979, but by 1981, The Rats needed something a bit more radical. Banana Republic was right and had House on Fire been on Mondo (it was recorded at the same time) it would have been a ideal follow up. Heaven knows what anyone would have made of the album with those singles.

Fall Down would have been an interesting choice. Had it failed, then I think it wouldn't really have mattered as it wouldn't have been expected to be a hit. And it may have succeeded being so different.

Mark L · Loudmouth

If Mondo was recorded in 1980 for release in January '81, why was House on Fire shelved for 15 to 18 months? It's obvious with UAN appearing on US Mondo, a few V Deep tracks were recorded in 1980.

The next big question is who on earth decided Another Piece was more worthy than Fire or UAN? !

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
If Mondo was recorded in 1980 for release in January '81, why was House on Fire shelved for 15 to 18 months? It's obvious with UAN appearing on US Mondo, a few V Deep tracks were recorded in 1980.
The next big question is who on earth decided Another Piece was more worthy than Fire or UAN? !

Only the band would know. From what I have read, V Deep was due to be released, but because the Godley and Creme production didn't work out they went back to Visconti and salvaged Up All Night and House on Fire (and maybe others) in order to get the record out.

Mark L · Loudmouth

I have a V Deep tour programme somewhere and they are on a fancy boat with G & C. All seemed happy. Wonder what the issue was and what V Deep would have sounded like if they'd stayed the course?

On a similar note, I've seen Mondo Promo on ebay for around £25 which The Boomtown Rats website says is rare and contains extracted tracks from their 4th album mixed differently. Does anyone have this and care to review it on here? Apologies if done already but quick search revealed nothing.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

ArrGee wrote:
Mark L wrote:
If Mondo was recorded in 1980 for release in January '81, why was House on Fire shelved for 15 to 18 months? It's obvious with UAN appearing on US Mondo, a few V Deep tracks were recorded in 1980.
The next big question is who on earth decided Another Piece was more worthy than Fire or UAN? !
Only the band would know. From what I have read, V Deep was due to be released, but because the Godley and Creme production didn't work out they went back to Visconti and salvaged Up All Night and House on Fire (and maybe others) in order to get the record out.

Gerry Cott worked on some of the songs that ended up on V Depp Think he was Up all night ha ha

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
I have a V Deep tour programme somewhere and they are on a fancy boat with G & C. All seemed happy. Wonder what the issue was and what V Deep would have sounded like if they'd stayed the course?
On a similar note, I've seen Mondo Promo on ebay for around £25 which The Boomtown Rats website says is rare and contains extracted tracks from their 4th album mixed differently. Does anyone have this and care to review it on here? Apologies if done already but quick search revealed nothing.

According to Visconti, Godley and Creme liked to work on one song at a time whereas with Visconti they would do the bits of the song as appropriate. The band (or possibly just Geldof) preferred the Visconti approach so they went back to him. No idea how far things had gone with them, but nothing ever came out. Likewise the Wainman recordings for Surfacing.

Never heard other mixes, but I guess this it...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOOMTOWN-RATS-extracts-from-mondo-bongo-LP-5-track-1-sided-promo-with-stamped-la-/261460441629?pt=UK_Records&hash=item3ce041ba1d

suss · In the Long Grass

Mark L wrote:
On a similar note, I've seen Mondo Promo on ebay for around £25 which The Boomtown Rats website says is rare and contains extracted tracks from their 4th album mixed differently. Does anyone have this and care to review it on here? Apologies if done already but quick search revealed nothing.

I've got one, and gave a copy to Wes too when the old codger hit milestone birthday smile

To be honest I'm damned if I can hear any difference in mixes...

Mark L · Loudmouth

Thanks Suss. I'm not going to bother with it.

-- Edited by Mark L on Monday 18th of August 2014 10:38:39 PM