let's forget about who's to blame for the moment being, it can wait...right now: 

is everyone ok? let us know..

the news has just said there is only one person that has been injured, thankfully!

motema2004 wrote: Yes, not too many hurt; and hopefully we will be able to talk to terrorists to get their story, to put end to violence and communicate more.

mags wrote: I respect your views totally. but the people that are committing those acts are beyond talking. They want the world to know what they are capable of. It took many years for the British government to talk to the IRA, thankfully this has been resolved. This is a completely different kettle of fish. Martyrs they are not, brainwashed they may be!

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uh....what does beyond talking mean?

ADMIN: Edited to not cast doubt on mags character.

mags wrote:

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enough is enough. They're at it again. Our security services know who some of these murderers are. Taking the p*** comes to mind. Both MI6 and the CIA, like all countries, have their 'dirty tricks' depts. Why don't they use them to their full extent and rid the world of the parasites. No doubt other brainless wonders would take over, well... take them out as well. This may sound radical, but as I said enough is enough!!!

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Just who, precisely, should the 'dirty tricks' depts get rid of?  Remember that they didn't know about the four who did the 7th July bombing.  Sure one had come to their attention previously, but your logic would mean that ANYONE who came to the attention of the security services would be taken out by the dirty tricks department.  That sounds a lot like Saddam's Iraq...

Now consider this.  What evidence is there in the public domain that all the 7th July bombers died when their bombs went off?  All I've heard is that 'personal effects' - things like credit cards - were found in the debris.  That, alone, is not proof enough for me.  Have they reported finding body parts?

Take the No. 26 bus failed bomb attempt yesterday (as an analogy to the Tavistock Square bus bomb on 7th July).  Where was the bomber when the rucksack failed to explode?  I heard nothing about anyone running away from the bus.  The story I heard was that the driver thought the bus had been hit from behind and stopped the bus.  After a while a dazed woman came down the stairs saying there had been an explosion upstairs.  The bus driver went upstairs to investigate, came back down and told everyone to evacuate the bus.  What was the bomber doing during all this?  Had he jumped out of the window (without anyone noticing)?  Did no one notice him by the rucksack?  And if the rucksack is found to contain his 'personal effects' should we conclude that he was with the rucksack when it failed to explode?  At the back of the bus, where the passengers can't see an unaccompanied rucksack...

Take the Asian person shot today on the tube at Stockwell.  An eye witness stated very clearly to the BBC cameras that the man was chased onto the tube, fell to the ground, was surrounded by plain-clothes officers and shot 5 times whilst he was on the ground.  He had no rucksack.  What sort of suicide bomber was he then?  Why did he have to be killed there and then?  OK, fear, nerves, human behviour, heat of the moment and all that might explain it.  I just hope that this Asian person who was killed is indeed a member of a bombing gang.  If not there will be all hell to pay in relations between the young Asian community and the rest of society.

One must listen to the news critically, particularly when it is breaking news being reported.  And when the authorities have had time to put together the story they want to tell.

And, as ever, when it is Blair's verbal outpouring.  Sure, Mr Blair, of course these bombings aren't related to Britain's involvement with the US in Iraq...  Just tell it to the families of those killed in the bombings.  The irony is that whilst the bombers probably did it because they wanted the UK to quit Iraq, their controllers want the UK to stay there.  Iraq, and particularly the behaviour of the US forces there, is the best recruiting sergeant these people have.

mags, Jules,

The more personal testimonies I hear on the radio about how that Asian was killed at Stockwell, the more it sounds like a summary execution.  When the reporters say "police had been following him" (i.e. suggesting he was under surveillance), what they really mean is "police were chasing him".  He had apparently been chased in from the tube station entrance, where he had jumped over a barrier to get down into the tube station.  The chase ended on the floor of a tube carriage with five rounds being emptied into his head from close-range.  A bystander said the guy looked absolutely petrified.  (One might also surmise that he was not, or was not capable of, thinking or acting rationally under these circumstances.)

Now I really don't understand this!  Like Jules, I would have thought he would have been far more valuable alive, notwithstanding that, as they now say, he wasn't one of the suicide bombers.  I'm not a Muslim, and I suspect that few, if any forum members are, but imagine what your feelings would be about this if you were a young, politically-aware British Muslim.

There are clearly some very wicked people in this world; people who want to indiscriminately harm others - irrespective of religion, race, colour, or whatever.  So there must be people who are responsible for the London bombings (actual and failed).  We don't get the full picture through the news media, for various reasons, but I can't dismiss multiple, independent personal testimonies.  This killing could be very bad for community relations in the UK at a time when we really need to get the Muslim community working to isolate and irradicate its "Islamo-fascists" elements.  I just hope that the police had very, very good reasons for this 'execution'.  Time will tell.

By talking, I originally meant a dialogue or communication with the organization behind the activity, the Islamo-fascists as Oeo called them. We have BBC on the internet and the details I just read, and eyewitness interviews, said that the Stockwell person had been followed from a house that was under investigation previously. He was said also to grab a person sitting next to the pole on the train at one point. In the case of the July 7 attack, there was a claim on a German website for it? Who are these people? The man who was arrested at Downing Street was compliant and released. The Stockwell man chose to run, for whatever reason; but it doesn't look like he was innocent. This is all very hard on the police as well. Who could've expected something like this? So let's not argue on the forum! Agreed, time will tell.

oeo: Again I have to agree on your points, bomb belts etc. If the police thought that this was the case then ..fine. But why did this guy run when being chased by armed police.

If they shouted at me to stop, I would have stopped so fast they would have been in front of me.

Lets see what the media come up with tomorrow!!

mags wrote:

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Lets see what the media come up with tomorrow!!

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The media may be reporting on riots by tomorrow.

mags,

Seems you can't agree with a Che and can't disagree with a bunny.  I haven't changed my strongly held opinions about the world.  Have you you changed your perception of me?  Or have you just started listening to what I say?

Stockwell shooting was mistake, says Met
By Philippe Naughton, Times Online

July 23, 2005

The man shot dead by police at Stockwell Underground station yesterday morning had nothing to do with Thursday’s abortive London bomb attacks, Scotland Yard said tonight.

According to witnesses, the man was shot five times at close range after being chased onto a Northern Line train at the South London station at around 10am. Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said later that the man was directly connected to the bungled bombings of three Tube trains and a London bus the day before.
 
The Met said in a statement this afternoon: “We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.

”We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005. For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets.

”The man emerged from a block of flats in the Stockwell area that were under police surveillance as part of the investigation into the incidents on Thursday 21st July. He was then followed by surveillance officers to the Underground station. His clothing and behaviour added to their suspicions.

”The circumstances that led to the man's death are being investigated by officers from the MPS [Metropolitan Police Service] Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the IPCC [Independent Police Complaints Commission] in due course.”

The shooting had been graphically described by a series of witnesses. One passenger on the train, Mark Whitby, said shortly afterwards: "As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified.

"He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time. They unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead, five shots, he's dead."

The Met yesterday published CCTV images of the four suspected suicide bombers, whose bombs failed to properly detonate at Oval, Warren Street and Shepherd’s Bush stations and on a No 26 bus passing through Bethnal Green. The attacks came two weeks to the day after four suicide bombers killed 52 commuters in rush-hour attacks on three Tube trains and another double-decker bus.

Two men were arrested yesterday in Stockwell in connection with the attacks and are being held at the high-security Paddington Green police station – although their precise connection with the bombings is not clear.

The armed branches of the Metropolitan Police, which is believed to have been reinforced with special forces, has recently been given revised rules of engagement to deal with the threat of suicide bombers, which imply the immediate use of lethal force if the lives of civilians or officers are under threat.

The Muslim Council of Britain expressed concern yesterday that there appeared to be a “shoot-to-kill” policy that needed explaining – and its calls for a full investigation will be backed up by today’s news that the man shot in Stockwell had nothing to do with Thursday’s terrorist attack.

The IPCC, the police watchdog, has already announced that there will be an independent investigation into the shooting. Nick Hardwick, IPCC chairman, said the commission would use its own investigators to carry out the inquiry.

"The shooting at Stockwell Station is being referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission for investigation, in line with normal requirements under the Police Reform Act 2002," he said. "The IPCC independently investigates all fatal police shootings. In carrying out this investigation, the IPCC will ensure that nothing is done to hinder the urgent police priority of tracking down and bringing to justice those responsible for the recent London bombings and their vital work to prevent further outrages."

In a statement tonight, Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights organisation Liberty, said: "Our hearts go out to the family of the dead man and to the officers involved in this tragic incident.

"No-one should rush to judgement. In any case of this kind - especially at a time of heightened tension - there must be a prompt, comprehensive and independent investigation into what happened.

"This must cover the relevant guidance, training of officers, as well as the facts of the particular operation.

NI_MPU('middle');
"These are knife-edge split second decisions made in moments of grave danger. We have a massive shared interest in the protection of innocent lives."

...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1706021,00.html

Yesterdays BBC interviews had 3 people: a woman was one, Mark Whitby had the longest interview, and there was 1 other man for 1 minute who said the Stockwell man had grabbed onto the pole and the person sitting near the pole as well. Don't know why some people also said he had worn a padded jacket. Did he run because he was simply afraid? Perhaps handicapped? It's so sad to kill someone, even the hardest of hearts has trouble doing that, it is not easy to do, even for special ops people. We still don't know details and, for myself, I feel quite unqualified to speculate at all; but I just wanted to point out some of the other sides. I have a feeling he could've been hearing impaired, as a similar thing happened where I live & the person thought to be a criminal was a deafmute. We have to wait for more information. Love to all.