camilladk wrote:

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I would be happy to see Bob as president. Atleast it will then be a good looking president

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meekus wrote:

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A good president would be Ted Kennedy.

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Yeah, and very little national credibility.  He's become a caricature of a "liberal" (in the pejorative sense).  And, there's ALWAYS Chappaquiddick.  (If you don't know, Google it.)  Not to mention alcohol........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Kennedy  ("personal scandals", "presidential bid" and "political resurrection" are especially relevant to my point)

Tango, obviously you did not do your Googling homework.  Chappaquiddick is the name of a place, not a person.  It is also the location of Ted Kennedy's greatest scandal.

Ted Kennedy has a famous family, including two murdered brothers: President John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy.

Look at this one:

http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html

And Bush is still a world leader.

Ummmm....what conspiracy theories?  I guess I've managed to miss those.

The important issues I see raised by meekus' link have to do with freedom of speech, the nature of war reportage, the psychology of soldiers, and the way war injured/dead are treated.

From the New York Times, Sept 28, 2005: 

"The Army has opened an investigation into whether American troops have sent gruesome photographs of Iraqi war dead to an Internet site where the soldiers were given free access to pornography, Army officials said Tuesday. . . .An Army spokesman[] said that if soldiers had posted the images, their actions could violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which defines conduct unbecoming an officer or enlisted soldier.  Another Pentagon official who reviewed the Web site said it raised questions . . .  of whether the acts could be viewed as a violation of the Geneva Conventions, which set standards for treatment of remains of those killed in a combat zone.

. . .

[The operator of the site was quoted as saying] 'To me, this is from a soldier's slant.  This is directly from them.  They can take the digital cameras and take a picture and send it to me, and that's the most raw you can get it.  I like to see it from their point of view, and I think it's newsworthy.'

. . .

Digital cameras have been ubiquitous in the modern cobat zone, and it was digital pictures and videos that provided the first public evidence of the extreme degree to which military police soldiers had abused Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison."

________________

I don't feel much like poking round that link.  I already knew war was hell.  Explicit war porn isn't my thing.  Where porn is concerned, I'd rather look at some buff LIVING guy with chiseled abs and an enormous penis. 

Julia wrote:

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While the link raises important issues meekus, it would have been better to state some sort of warning re the graphic photos of wounds etc.  While some people are able to view the gore of war without too many problems, others cannot. That doesn't mean they are avoiding the 'reality' of war; it simply means that they may experience distress with such explicit pictures.  Especially without knowing that's what they'll see. After looking a little round the link, I'd URGE CAUTION to viewers; the author of the site is an advocate of the conspiracy theories re the attacks on September 11, 2001. Enough said.

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I don't think the fact that the website has dubious 9/11 conspiracy theories can be used to negate the validity of real war photos.  Or do you think the photos are also part of a conspiracy theory?

Did those war victims have any kind of warning?  Did they want it?  One moment you're enjoying celebrating a family wedding or doing the shopping or just sitting quietly at home and the next everything explodes and blood guts, brains, bones, limbs are splattered everywhere.  Oh yes, and all for the sake of non-existant WMDs.  And security of oil supply, of course (just how many times did Blair and his fellow weasels say "It's not about oil" before the invasion?) Regard your car with pride next time you polish it, and think of those people.

And just be thankful you don't have it on your conscience that you work in the munitions factory that makes all this possible.

oeokosko wrote:

I don't think the fact that the website has dubious 9/11 conspiracy theories can be used to negate the validity of real war photos.

Ho hum.  Seems I made a mistake in saying 'link' (i.e. the link meekus provided) instead of 'website' (i.e. the website that contained the link).  In no way did I intend to make a direct connection between the author's support of 9/11 conspiracy theories and the war photos; my statement to viewers to be cautious was meant as a much more general comment about the website (along the lines of; in exploring the website itself, just keep in mind that the author is a supporter of 9/11 conspiracy theories, which may influence the presentation of certain other information).

oeskosko wrote:

Or do you think the photos are also part of a conspiracy theory?

Do I really look that stupid?

Last night I spent a good deal of time exploring the website and found that the 9/11 conspiracy material is just one section of an ENORMOUS amount of information, in which the author's stated purpose is "to stand up for the rights of plants and animals" (things don't get much broader than this!).

Also, the author clearly states in a banner:

It is not important that you agree, but that you think the issues on this website through for yourself. I'm often wrong and I'm eager to hear the correct answers.

In the light of all of this, I don't think my urging of caution re the website is worth a toss.

meekus wrote:

I was proving a point. Someone attacked the left, I attacked the right.

Are you saying that some sort of 'point' was made by responding to a negative comment about Ted Kennedy with the same about Dubya?

Or are you actually revealing a strategy behind your posts?

Teddy is alleged to have been involved in a crime against a human life.  If it's true, he's probably guilty of manslaughter.  If it's not, then it's domestic political mudslinging.  Only Teddy (and/or God) know.

Feel free to vote for Teddy as a write in.

I will simply repeat:  "Feel free to vote for Teddy as a write in."

And as they say....  Peace.  Out.

I'm too young to even remember this.

Did you know Bush has assisted in the killing of thousands of US soldiers?

Who's more of a criminal (if the allegations are true)?

spc1970 wrote:

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I'm guessing your not from the US.  If my guess is correct I will further guess that it was the ignorant, poorly-trained, ill-disciplined US military that helped your country off the ground and allowed you to hide behind it like a babe beneath your mothers apron while it beat up the bully who was making a fool of your country.

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spc1970 wrote:

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oeokosko wrote: ...for the most part ignorant, poorly-trained and ill-disciplined soldiers, who are apparantly incapable of any other type of work except in abattoirs...  

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What's missing from this story?

Basra soldiers tell of fire drama

UK soldiers have described the moment when they were forced to flee their burning armoured vehicle during unrest in Basra, southern Iraq, on Monday.

Sgt George Long, of the Staffordshire Regiment, said part of his face was on fire when he fled the Warrior vehicle.

Pte Ryon Burton said: "I couldn't breathe - I just needed to get out."

Meanwhile, Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari and Defence Secretary John Reid have denied the unrest has strained relations between the two countries.

The violence came as the Army launched a rescue operation to free two British soldiers who had been arrested in the southern Iraqi city.

Public disorder

He said after checking that his colleague was being dealt with, he got back into the vehicle to deal with the public disorder.

Pte Burton, 20, described to Channel 4 News the moment his vehicle came under attack from the mob.

He said: "The first thing I heard was the gunner saying his sights had been smashed. The second thing was a petrol bomb, coming over my hatch and the platoon sergeant shouting the petrol bomb had gone in the turret.

"It had seeped down in the back with the troops in the back, and down into the driver tunnel, located between the turret and the driving hatch."

He said he had to kick open the hatch before jumping through the flames to escape.

"As soon as I jumped off there were a good five or six people around me, telling me where to go."

Full story -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4269672.stm

Yes, you got it.  The soldiers followed their training and didn't open fire on the Iraqi crowd.  What would the US forces have done in that situation?  Are rioters ever allowed this close to a US vehicle without being mowed down?

Video report

Oh yes, one other thing.  The moderated response of the British army to that incident means that the situation in Basra has now calmed down again rather than escalating.

If you ever disrespect my father again, the wrath of eternal Meekus shall rain down upon you. I don't even like his job. But don't ever question his education. He works at weapons logistics for the entire Pacific fleet. I only assume it takes more intelligence to do this than fire a gun, though he's made Marksman on every M16 test. Numbers indeed don't translate into victory - intelligence and honor do, which the US military currently lacks. They're replaced by racism, hate, and brute strength.

Great human rights, like the death penalty, invasion of privacy, and homophobia...while further progressed from China on that level, it's still pathetic.

-3 is greater than -4, but it's still negative.

spc1970 wrote:

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We spend three time more on research and developement than they do on their entire military budget.  They would have a difficult time tackling Tiawan.  Numbers don't translate into victory...

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Numbers do count.  The US couldn't overcome the Vietnamese, won't overcome the muslims in Iraq-Afghanistan, and wouldn't dare take on the Chinese.

Even the Palestinians will eventually prevail over the Zionists in Israel through sheer weight of numbers and love of homeland: Palestinians bury their dead

oeokosko wrote:

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What's missing from this story? Basra soldiers tell of fire drama UK soldiers have described the moment when they were forced to flee their burning armoured vehicle during unrest in Basra, southern Iraq, on Monday. Sgt George Long, of the Staffordshire Regiment, said part of his face was on fire when he fled the Warrior vehicle. Pte Ryon Burton said: "I couldn't breathe - I just needed to get out." Meanwhile, Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari and Defence Secretary John Reid have denied the unrest has strained relations between the two countries. The violence came as the Army launched a rescue operation to free two British soldiers who had been arrested in the southern Iraqi city. Public disorder Sgt Long, 29, told the BBC: "My back was on fire, down the back of my arms and part of my face. It was basic panic, I needed to get out of (the vehicle's) turret and get the flames put out." He said after checking that his colleague was being dealt with, he got back into the vehicle to deal with the public disorder. Pte Burton, 20, described to Channel 4 News the moment his vehicle came under attack from the mob. He said: "The first thing I heard was the gunner saying his sights had been smashed. The second thing was a petrol bomb, coming over my hatch and the platoon sergeant shouting the petrol bomb had gone in the turret. "It had seeped down in the back with the troops in the back, and down into the driver tunnel, located between the turret and the driving hatch." He said he had to kick open the hatch before jumping through the flames to escape. "As soon as I jumped off there were a good five or six people around me, telling me where to go." Full story -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4269672.stm Yes, you got it.  The soldiers followed their training and didn't open fire on the Iraqi crowd.  What would the US forces have done in that situation?  Are rioters ever allowed this close to a US vehicle without being mowed down? Video report Oh yes, one other thing.  The moderated response of the British army to that incident means that the situation in Basra has now calmed down again rather than escalating. -- Edited by oeokosko at 08:44, 2005-10-12

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Unlike Mee-"Wrath"-kus, you occationally have interesting and well articulated points of view.  This story, while anecdotal, does make one stop and think.  And please accept my apology, I meant no disrespect to British troops.  They are strong, honorable men and women.

Meeeeeeekus.  You disrespect millions of fathers with every word you type. 

Not based upon their overall intelligence or responsibility as fathers, I do not.

You disrespect every soldier (from King David to George Washington to Private Ryan to Me) with your comments. 

Those who kill are deemed little to no respect - by me.

Your father should be ashamed of you due to your twisted views of the world...

He is. I have to live with that already, but thanks for the heads-up.

You defend the rights of animals yet agree with abortion,

Man is an animal. Agreed. If a cheetah wants to get an abortion, I'd say let her. But as they don't have the same rights as a person, I don't think I'll be going to a Cheetah Abortion Rights rally anytime soon. And I never said I was for animals rights. I have no connection to PEAT, or bestial people, or anything of the sort. If you are making a connection to the video I had up long ago, then I encourage you to read what I have written, where I state the same. Domesticated livestock animals are necessary for humans to live and eat. The video showed money-making filthy corporate businessmen for who they are. There's a difference in peacefully sending a cow to the market to make beef - and grabbing a small furry animal by its tail, bashing it into the ground until it is virtually lifeless, then skinning it while still alive, and throwing it into a heap of countless others, litterally nothing but bone, muscle, and blood with nothing to stop it dripping. And that wasn't for anyone to stay warm, or eat a meal, or anything. It was for rich people to look fab and coprorate swine to make money.

I agree with the right for a woman to choose what she wants to do with her own body. Semen have the possibility of being ejaculated. Granted, many men don't masturbate. But imagine those that do suddenly having their semen removed because spreading it without intercourse is a sin. Would you want someone to take away your semen because they think that you might masturbate?

Should a woman's right to do what she wants with her body be taken away because she might commit a sin?

you constantly criticize the US government and military but never a harsh word for sucide bombers and terrorists,

Their cause is now to defend their homeland and discourage others from invading. If a nation younger and seen as less moral and civilized as the US was invaded, you'd try to defend yourself. Others would take the initiative to attack them on their homefront. In the same situation, we'd do the exact same thing. We've been boming away at the Middle East for decades. The crusades haven't been forgotten by the ones who were attacked. These are your enemies. Until you can understand their point of view and how susceptible they are to radicalism, then you won't understand a damn thing about war in terror.

you praise a hollow form of government and rip the one that allows you to live freely,

I praise a government that's never had the chance to fully succeed in its trial forms. True communism has nothing to do with war or poverty, but equality on the social and economic level. It's better than believing in a system which degrades, lowers, classifies, bankrupts, and kills thousands every single year.

you argue that God is against killing in war yet no mention of God's thoughts about your support of a woman's right to kill her baby. You are a a joke.

In the same sense, you mention everything about God hating the termination of a fetus in the instance of a woman protecting her right to do what she wants with her own body (heaven forbid!), and nothing of the slaughter of hundreds of thousands through invasion, bombs, guns, knives, grenades...I don't laugh much anymore, not even at myself.

And the wrath of Meekus is what...  you will throw more straw men my way?  Scream "I am right because you are wrong" louder? 

No. But if it was, it's better than personal attacks and insults, wouldn't you say?

Present your view of Christ with more venom? 

My view of Christ is that we are all equal, we all have rights, and we are all saved not by good works but by the grace of God. I guess those slip past you. How pompous must one be to question another's love of Christ?

Or are you physically threatening me? 

Yes, from Hawaii, I physically threatened you.

I guess you don't conscientiously object to personal threats, only to actions that free an entire population from a brutal dictator.

What's more damaging: breif, emotional rage from forum small-talk, or death from bullets, bombs, grenades, bazooka rounds, tank cannons...need I continue?

For the uninitiated, this is not a biblical perspective. 

Of course, the Bible is the only source of scientific truth in the world.

I commend your love of Christ. 

As do I.

But while some of your comments point towards wisdom, others, like this, display a lack of biblical understanding. 

Review my first statement.

I do not question your love, only your biblical knowledge. 

Which matters more?

Your understanding of biblical principles, except for the standard Sunday school talking points, is shallow. 

Unless you're a Sunday school teacher and a theologist, then everyone's understanding is.

I encourage you to drink deeper.  You will be suprised at how much more wise you will be.

Biblical knowledge equates to wisdom and scientific truth...not.

meekus wrote:

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Of course, the Bible is the only source of scientific truth in the world.  

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I swore I wasn't going to get involved in this section anymore....but that was just TOO FUNNY!  ROFLMAO!!!!!

I will now go back to watching you squabble and doing my best to stay out if it.

"Unless you're a Sunday school teacher and a theologist..."

I apologize. I meant theologian.

I love weekends. School's out!